Wednesday, May 30, 2012

3-5 Years, 250K?

http://scamadvocates.com/164-Amway.html

Saw this comment on the scam advocate blog:

Other January 12 2012 I was at a mall and a couple struck up a conversation about something i was looking to buy at the shop. To be polite i responded and they kept the conversation going and finally they asked my number. I hesitantly gave my number and forgot about the incident. Two weeks later I received a call on a Sunday evening after 7:00 PM from this very same person. After initial chitchat the person mentioned a e-commerce business opportunity which has helped him make money. So we booked a meeting at my home on a Monday evening after work to discuss more on this. The couple showed up and gave almost no information on the opportunity except for some vague e-commerce concept and invited to an "industry briefing" to be held at a hotel on Wednesday evening at 8:00 PM and I was asked to show up there in business attire. On Wednesday i went to the hotel where the "industry briefing" was to be held and was forced to sit in the front seat with a paper and pen too to make some notes. The person who spoke was very animated and used some classical phrases undermining how un-fullfilling our jobs were.

He showed a business plan and claimed, a person in 3-12 months can start earning 2500+/month and in 3-5 years earn more than 250K per year. At the end he mentioned that they have a product company called 'Amway Global' formerly know as 'Quixtar' and a education system called 'Britt Worldwide" or BWW which work together to make the above claims a reality. At the end of the seminar i was given a few CD's and a literature material again highlighting what was said in the meeting. Intrigued i asked the person who invited me as to how long he was doing this business and he said that he was doing it for a "couple of years" which i later found out to be 13 years infact and he was by no means "RICH". He invited me to another meeting on Friday at his place called "PASE - Product and system Education" as a followup. I went to PASE and met a few others who were involved in this business and the meeting had a cult like flavor to it. I did succumb to the pressure to sign up and was asked to sign up then and there. They asked me to start attending the meetings every week, buy a subscription program for CD's called SOCD which i was told would cost me 7.94$'s per week + taxes making it 8.02$'s, later they also mentioned something called LSO - Leadership Standing Order which would cost me another 8.02$'s per week. I was also asked to sign up for a service called 'CommuniKate' which is a voice messaging servicewhich would cost me 25$'s per month and also asked to open a business website where i could showcase my business based on 3 pre-formated templates which would cost me 15$'s per month.

I confronted as to the validity of all these that i am asked to buy and i was told that all these would make it look like a legitimate business. They also stressed that it is a tax deductible expenses so were all the miles i would drive to these meetings and any contacting meetings i would go to. I did not know at that time that every Wednesday meeting i would attend would cost me 6$'s per week. I was also asked to buy tickets to "BBS- Business Building Seminar" which would cost me 25$'s per meeting and this is held 4 times a year. Here they introduced something called 'Eagle Program" where every person if he needed to be 'an Eagle' had to buy 300 P.V worth of products from Amway every month else they are 'chicken'. Each P.V was 2.50$'s making it a commitment of 750$'s every month on Products. While doing all these I was yet to see any earnings. They also mentioned about another larger meeting called "conference/ FED/ Leadership" to be held and it would cost me 100$'s. These Large conferences are also held 4 times every year. To know what happens in the conference you do a bit of search using keywords "Dateline Amway" and look at the video's in the link. I asked the person who introduced me to this business to provide me with receipts for all the money I had to spend on BWW stuff, like CD's Tickets etc. But i was told that no receipts will be given. Later I found out that the Big Pins make Tons of money from these tools than Amway itself, and since these were circulated by Hand and money collected through cash and checks without receipt, THIS WAS THE TAX FREE INCOME. REPORTING of this income does not go to IRS, I am sure IRS Does not even know such an income stream exists. After all weekly meetings, a lots of CD's, compelled to do 300 P.V every month, driving a lot of miles and driving away all my friends and relatives it dawned on me that although Amway Makes good Products and sell them at a Premium and is considered a Legitimate by the Government, its combination with BWW MAKES IT A SCAM. If you are reading at this account, you are either looking at getting into this business or have a doubt in your mind if your decision was correct to join this business.

If you are OK with all the points i have stated above go ahead and still build the business. Else Rescue your money, because you will loose a lot of it if you get into this.

36 comments:

Andrew Barbaro said...

Thats just an opinion...theres many different business teams that are legit... People robbed u.cuz.ur gulible dont downgrade the business cuz ur a idiot n handed.people money to.things u didnt no about... It cost like 75 100 dollars to start a business u cood possibley retire on its the best business plan ive ever seen

Andrew Barbaro said...

Thats jus ur opinion people robbed u cuz ur gulible dont downgrade the business... None of those things communicate and all that isnt a part of Amway get ur facts straigt u sound dumb... And im not even in the business but i.no some very succesful people in business who started with.no.money and made themselves top.pins. Remember people this is one persons opinion on a billion dollar corporation and millions of business owners... Amway hasbeen around since the 1950s n very creditable and also own the Orlando magic.. That sounds pretty crediable to me

Lynn Judge said...

Well that is your opinion. We love the products and the people. Its a wonderful environment to be in - positive, uplifting and people with good ethics. It is a fantastic business model and we have surely benefited from it. Sorry you did not give it a go for long enough. If your friends left you for Amway, then perhaps they were not real friends. We are building a life that will enable us to leave a legacy ! We could not have done that without this business model.

Anonymous said...

oh look, more ambot BS!

Anonymous said...

I think it is a disgrace that these tools , meetings etc are forced on people. These at best should be optional or at best limited to a small one off amount to start with. i think the model offers a good opportunity for those who have the drive to hang in. But as i indicated it should be about products and not extended to a second stream of income where people can be foolEd into thinking spending on tools etc can produce a magic key to success

Anonymous said...

this type of business has driven me crazy. Market America is another one.
they persuade you any chance they got to attend the meeting, which are nothing but repeat the idea that join MA will be financially free and healthier with MA products. there will be testimony about how good the product is, like cancer is gone or back pain is gone after using the product.

Anonymous said...

Looser , don't make it in this bussiness.

Anonymous said...

I guess Amway is ok if you don't mind selling your soul to the process. They say it's 'part-time' but it's actually a 24/7 lifestyle if you want to actually make a profit at the level of financial independance. No real platinum or above does anything with their time that doesn't have anything to do with amway. They have a borderline psychotic level of loyalty to the process. Life is too short to give yourself away like that. Money isn't everything, make some, but enjoy your life EVERY day along the way. Don't delay doing activities that make you happy like IBO's preach, you don't know how many days you have left. It may be shorter than you think and you'll waste them all BS-ing at rallies and functions. At the end of your life, you will never wish you sat in more board plans. You will wish you had more of the small moments you had with your friends and family. That's all you'll be left with, the memories. What do you want yours to be? Seminars and board plans while your baby sitter has the memories with your children instead of you? Just be warned; where you gain in one area, something else will be taken from you. Don't get blinded by the material worship and envy that this biz uses to attaract people in.

Anonymous said...

these amway people are bastards who take advantage of F-1 students who have a student loans!! they are a disgrace to humanity

Himadri Hazarika said...

I had a similar experience.. intro in a mall, follow up call in 2 weeks, invite to an open meet, pressure to sign, a couple of PACE and then the presumption that I would start buying the CD's. I have quit today after a heated chat with my Platinum (claims to be Emerald) upline. He tried to dissuade me from quitting at first by trying to destroy my self-image and confidence. When that didn't work and I politely asked him to tell me how to quit, he said I can only quit if I give him a list of 10 people with phone numbers that I have spoke to about Amway. Obvious prospects. I refused to betray my friends and family. He started to get upset and then I had a proper go at him telling him that he and Amway were a bunch of liars and deceivers which made him get all defensive about how a $12B company that donates millions to charities can be so bad. He had a go too at how everyone sells themselves everyday and that is all that Amway asks. Anyway, I thought that this guy is either a true believer or a scammer, either way there was no point in wasting energy on trying to argue with him. He's supposed to send me an email about which number to call to start the process to quit and get product refunds. Lets see, the inbox is still empty.

I spent less than 3 months in this 'business'. I am gullible and stupid to the point of ignoring my self preservation instincts. However I have listened to them and discussed this with my partner who is behind the decision. It was a learning experience.. I hope.

To all Amway people who are reading this... if you believe that what you do is right, then I dare you to be upfront about all your techniques, hidden costs, tools, time required and other stuff to prospects in the open meetings. Or just answer this simple question when the mall prospect asks - 'What is the name of the business?'

Himadri Hazarika said...

I had a similar experience.. intro in a mall, follow up call in 2 weeks, invite to an open meet, pressure to sign, a couple of PACE and then the presumption that I would start buying the CD's. I have quit today after a heated chat with my Platinum (claims to be Emerald) upline. He tried to dissuade me from quitting at first by trying to destroy my self-image and confidence. When that didn't work and I politely asked him to tell me how to quit, he said I can only quit if I give him a list of 10 people with phone numbers that I have spoke to about Amway. Obvious prospects. I refused to betray my friends and family. He started to get upset and then I had a proper go at him telling him that he and Amway were a bunch of liars and deceivers which made him get all defensive about how a $12B company that donates millions to charities can be so bad. He had a go too at how everyone sells themselves everyday and that is all that Amway asks. Anyway, I thought that this guy is either a true believer or a scammer, either way there was no point in wasting energy on trying to argue with him. He's supposed to send me an email about which number to call to start the process to quit and get product refunds. Lets see, the inbox is still empty.

I spent less than 3 months in this 'business'. I am gullible and stupid to the point of ignoring my self preservation instincts. However I have listened to them and discussed this with my partner who is behind the decision. It was a learning experience.. I hope.

To all Amway people who are reading this... if you believe that what you do is right, then I dare you to be upfront about all your techniques, hidden costs, tools, time required and other stuff to prospects in the open meetings. Or just answer this simple question when the mall prospect asks - 'What is the name of the business?'

Anonymous said...

I am sorry you had such a bad experiance. I love their products and buy them all the time. I never was told I had to buy the "tools" you said you forced to buy. I am an IBO and if people want join I will tell them what I was told. You make make money from buying products from yourself and getting custoers. Not by buying tools or selling tools. If I happen to find others in who want to do the same I get points from what they bought as well. The tools are just there to help you stay motivated no required. Also you get a free website now. You don't have to have communticate. You can use your home phone number. I have a great upline. I am sorry you had such a bad experiance.

Nix the Ever knowing soothe sayer to the stars said...

Why is it that they dont tell me the name of the company till I got there?? Whats the deal about that? Some hush hush secret blah blah that they cant utter the name of the company till youre there?

Anonymous said...

that's what cults do.

ernesto prestosa said...

TRY TO READ THE BOOKS .IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE.YOU PEOPLE ARE LOW CLASS

Wilhelmina said...

O my goodness. Totally agree

Wilhelmina said...

O my goodness. Totally agree

Wilhelmina said...

O my goodness. Totally agree

Anonymous said...

I have a close friend that joined up about 3 yrs ago. To this day, he has bought every cd, dvd, book, gone to every meeting some as far as 15 hr drive away. He has done nothing but lost money. Cashed in his 401k, that's all gone, cashed in all his vacation pay 4 weeks worth, he can't deduct any of the cash paid out for motivational seminars or material. We sat down and calculated all he put into this crap. Totalled $18000 last year. He made $7000. To me, thats a loss. But he is convinced he can get rich by following the program word for word. Now his house is gone and his family, wife 3 kids and his brother share a 2 bedroom apt. He claimsin 5 yrs he will be making $10000 a week. Well 3 yrs in and he has lost 10 times that over all.

Joecool said...

Anonymous,

I feel for your friend and that's part of why I keep blogging. If I can help prevent a few people from falling into that trap, it's all worth it.

Vish said...

Hi Joecool, Just read the blog. The comments on that blog seems to be from a person who is in the thick of things in Amway, trying to put up a brave face. I can see him pinching himself that what is happening to him is not true (unless he is a diamond and above) living of other peoples' job income. Reminds me of an old adage, as long as there are people who are gullible enough to be fooled, there would be scamsters. Doesn't quite rhyme in English, but conveys what i did in my mother tongue and rhymes well to drive home the point

Anonymous said...

If you are not happy with Amway opportunity try to do something else that can give you 250k in 3-5years, if you can find one post it here so that other people can try to make money from it.. Simple is it?? If you can not think a way to help other people to get some income to change their life for better why keep accusing amway?? Every business has it own risk, if you fail in conventional business does its mean that its a scam?? People do make money from amway, it is because they do the business not just sign up and hoping money to be transfered to their account..

Joecool said...

Do something else that gives you $250K in 3-5 years? Where did you get the ideat that anyone makes 250K from Amway?

Anonymous said...

it's a TITLE man... does title need to be 100 sentence or more?? want to know details see the plan how you can get it if you DO ACCORDING TO THE PLAN.. as you read title in newspaper, only short one, then what to do is just read the article for more detail what happen.. if title in newspaper not as what u read in detail, does it's mean that the newspaper advertisement is a scam??

Joecool said...

People in Amway making 250K are not making that money from Amway. They are making it from the tools.

Steven Huanca said...

Its just a downline of sellers, select the best products that can sell dont waste them.. ibos are not tools, they are co-workers

Joecool said...

The downline of sellers just makes Amway a product pyramid.

The tools make it worse because it extracts money from IBOs who are already struggling to sell even a few Amway products. The products are overpriced so it's not competitive in an open market.

Anonymous said...

I don't know where u get those idea to make such a claim.. Maybe just because of your lack of knowledge about how the amway plan works or maybe you just a hater to this kind of opportunity..

Joecool said...

I know quite well how Amway (doesn't) work. And I'm not a hater, just pointing out that Amway sucks.

Anonymous said...

You call them ambots because they focus on the positive of things even if the only thing ppl gain is personal growth. what do you call yourself for spending your own time complaining and speaking out negative? I feel bad for whoever deals with you everyday. may your poor bitter/broke soul gain some type of personal growth before you die.

Joecool said...

You call it negative. I call it the truth.

Anonymous said...

Interesting comments. For credentials have been a founders DD and sponsored by a founders crown DD.
My hope is that those in Amway / BWW read and see how they appear to the general public. By posting false statements of income and abuse you turn people off and do yourself a dis service. Get real
For prospects, you should omit and ignore college students. Don't derail their focus and make false statements
For DDs or BWW members don't lie - if in doubt check your own Income tax return - Form C . If there is no profit for you, you are not real and this falsehood is evident --- NoOne is going to follow you dummy and its your issue

Finally , BWW promotions and materials "should" only be bought from product profit and not hype nor future expected income .. Real businesses don't operate this way - neither does mine.

Finally ask yourself, why is the documented average income per Amway IBO less than $200. One main reason is that existing IBO have no profit, falsify their income , buy BWW tools with no profit thus newbies drop out even before they started. And yes soon the existing sponsoring IBO quites .. You the existing IBO is the issue dummy - clean up your act

Cheers
-be

Joecool said...

Good comments "be", but credentials are questionable when your comments are completely anonymous. In any case, you are right that IBOs should not spend money on tools unless they have some profit from product sales.

Kelly Johnson said...

I have never been told to spend 300 a month to become an eagle. I was told I need to get six people under me who only buy things from Amway just the regular things everybody needs like soap tooth paste stuff like that The cost of some of the product seem a little pricey but the products are great. I love them all I do is buy the stuff I need and buy anyhow on a monthly basis and thats all I ask people to do.

Anonymous said...

Love this thread. I spent 10 years in this "business" and never earned more than $35 in a bonus check. Retail profit was very minimal. I would have to say that after the 10 years, I made, maybe, $400. But I spent thousands on Kate, tools and books. I wish Joecool had been around 13 years ago with a website like this to deter me from joining. It would have saved me a lot of money and precious time. For the record, I did everything "according to the plan" and it got me nowhere. Kelly, I really liked a lot of the products too. But, I found that most of the same products can be purchased at the store for half or even less than half of the cost and are just as good or even better.
To anonymous on December 21, 2014: Take two years and learn how to code/program. Make incredible apps for the mobile app stores and charge $0.99 each download. With the same amount of work that you put into your Amway "business" you could potentially get more than you ever could with Amway. And, guess what? It's residual! Yes, you have to update the app every now and then, but you can do that in your own home without putting on a suit and bugging others. And even with the time to learn how to code/program, it would take less than 5 years. Think Candy Crush and Angry Birds.
To those who say that the business helps you grow and be a better person, that's great and all, but you don't go into business to grow and be a better person and lose money while doing it. You go into business to make money. Something that only 1% or less of all IBO's even achieve.
My hat goes off to Joecool for fighting the good fight, not the fake one.

Joecool said...

Thanks for the comments. I finally left Amway in about 1998 and I actually didn't know much about the scam until about 2004 when I discovered some forums about Amway and was able to learn so much more. I started this blog to help unsuspecting prospects and new IBOs and have been able to help provide information to people for nearly 10 years now. I also wish there had been more information so I could have avoided the scam.